So here's the thing, for most 600-class pilots, a gallon of fuel lasts about a month. Maybe a bit less - depends. But if $10-15/week calls your participation in the sport into question, then I've got nothing because we're talking about fuel for the flying season amounting to one lousy round of golf! Or a battery pack.

And it's not even like electric's a clear winner because the flip side includes 6-minute flights vs 15-20 minutes, eternally waiting to charge, plus the risk of tacoing a $150 pack in a crash. In fact, only took mention of a crash wiping out a pack to turn the tide as a couple of the more experienced pilots began nodding. Reason? Simple, it's because while it sucks, everybody eventually tosses a crash damaged pack . . . sometimes more than once!

So when the math pencils out to a pack costing roughly the same as a 4-gallon case of fuel (or a round of golf), it means guys who own three packs, have basically prepaid their fuel for two-three years. But let's be honest, odds are 'none' of the packs give you three good years because they tend to get tired whereas every flight with nitro gives the sam performance! Added to which, my worst crash in +30 years amounted to maybe an ounce of spilled fuel but I've crashed and lost two packs in the same weekend not once but twice! So electric models can get expensive . . .  and quickly.

Meanwhile, you know what nobody likes about electric models? Waiting on packs to charge. And whether at the field, or beforehand at home - because packs are dangerous - it means you can't let them charge unattended (fire risk). So recapping;

• packs aren't cheap!
• you sacrifice a fair bit of your life babysitting the stinkin' things, and for most
• 6 minutes isn't enough flight time! 

. . . so electric isn't all rainbows and unicorn farts!

The argument for nitro

So on balance, the argument regarding the price of a gallon of fuel doesn't turn on money. It turns on nitro having a certain appeal. Once you realize the economies are surprisingly close (and you can afford either one), and once you consider fueling takes moments, and how instead of 6min we're talking 15min flights (especially if flying is your thing more than waiting), then the electric vs nitro calculus begins changing.

And nothing beats the nitro sound! And no, 'not' making the argument the zzzzzz of an electric is like a kitchen appliance, just saying there's something special about the sound of nitro powered models. Like, there's a reason SAB offer the nitro powered RAW 580, Kraken 580, and RAW 700, and everybody else from Align, Nitron, to XLPower have nitro models in their lineup.

Bottom line? There's a certain panache to flying nitro. Saying if you know, no explanation is necessary and if you don't, then no explanation is possible!

Fixed Pitch

Benefit of using a fixed-pitch 4-channel heli - or - computer flight simulator is they make learning to hover a collective-pitch 6-channel heli relatively quick and easy. Honestly? Split decision if you can only afford one, or the other. I'd take the model over the simulator hilst learnign to hover, and the simulator afterward, but even if money is tight, my advice is try really hard to afford both.

As for the flying, it's kind of like explaining blue to a blind man. Best I can say is flying a heli is hard in the same way balancing a pool cue upright on your fingertip is a bit tricky at first, but also not impossible. So just as kids learn to steer and pedal trikes before tackling bikes, learning to fly a collective-pitch model helicopter is easiest with the equivalent of training wheels.

Trainging wheels can be either a fixed-pitch model, or a sim because both have the same feel as a collective-pitch model. Note; fixed pitch models won't fly inverted. Otherwise? The flight-axis for fixed pitch are the exact same-same;

• Roll - left-right
• Pitch - fore/aft
• Yaw - CCW/CW
• Throttle/Collective - up/down

Recapping; the 'feel' of the fixed pitch 4ch is like a 6ch model. Either model or sim means getting your sea legs whilst in your living room. And if you have both model and sim, then you'll progress better.

Bottom line? The toy heli plus sim are tools. Use them to master hovering before tackling a larger and more expensive model like the P6. Best part? Flying helis really is everything you're dreaming!

And once you can hover, the world's your oyster because 'all' helicopters feel similar in the hover. In fact, hovering is like hitting the pause button . . . even from 200 feet away. Trouble? Bail to a familiar hover and buy time to think! Once saw a guy gallop toward his model hovering hundreds of feet away until he had a good enough sight picture to hover it to the ground and collect himself.

Flight Simulators

Finally, when it comes to computer flight simulators (of which there are many), the benefit is the crashing is free. These also feel very realistic. Examples include RF (Real Flight), popular because it's available in hobby shops. Also, my personal favorite, HELI-X, nice for a realistic feel and because along with an inexpensive USB dongle (<$15) it it means using my actual transmitter for a better experience.

So if you're Jonesing helicopters, learning to hover with a fixed-pitch toy or a sim means quickly and easily mastering it before tackling a larger more expensive model.

The blue fixed-pitch model beside the green Goosky S1 are nearly the same size but vastly different in capabilities. And yes, an S1 can be flown indoors, but the plastic main rotor blades spin fast enough (and are hard enough) to damage drywall, and injure pets.

Saying it's kind of how a .177 pellet and a 22LR are similar in size, and both can bring down small game, but hitmen commits murder with the .22 instead of a pellet gun! So while an S1 may look toy-like, please believe me, it aint! So my advice is wait to get an S1 until you're an experienced pilot because they can be an absolute handful. Trust me.

Recapping; tiny collective pitch models can be great fun, but the right tool for learning is an el cheapo fixed-pitch toy, instead. And if you insist because you've heard of built-in beginner-modes, then the real issue for these things turns out to be . . . where to fly them?

Sure, influencers may 3D a tiny S1 within a bedroom on YouTube - but - when 'you' go to fly one indoors, if you have any sense, it turns out hovering is about the size of it because unlike the toy-like model, one of these will definitely hurt if it flies into you. But it gets worse because once you take one of these indoor models outside, you discover even a light breeze is overwhelming unless you're an expert pilot. Still want one because they're cute? Well go ahead . . . it's a hobby!

Bottom line? Unless you have access to a gymnasium, small collective pitch models are limited by the physics of the real world to really calm days. And if we're being honest, once you're good enough for an S1, then the slightly larger S2 sitting beside it in this YouTube frame grab isn't much larger, but is a heck of a lot more capable!

Note; when watching videos of Kyle today, bear in mind these days he's turning waaaay more RPM than with his Pantera in this old video, major point being, if you crank a P6 up to 2200RPMs instead of 2000, then it'll react more quickly, also. Minor point of this video being, even if you dream of 3D, if you're a beginner learning the ropes, a P6 absolutely won't hold you back whilst being great at suffering the knocks and abuse of a new pilot just because it's a plastic fantastic! So yes, it's actually valid to compare a Kraken/RAW 580 vs P6 . . . sort of.

Nuance

Why only sort of? Same reason Motor Trend magazine pits Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang in a shootout but including a Tahoe in the mix would be stupid. Yes, they all have 4-wheels, V-8 engines, and heated leather seats, but we're talking sporty coupes vs an SUV - different design language!

Same with Kraken 580 Nitro vs Pantera P6 models. They may use the same OS MAX 55HZ-R engine and 600mm blades, but the truth is the Kraken/RAW 580 Nitro family actually more closely compares to the Tron 5.5N, T-REX 600XN, or Fury 57 SN. And it's for the same reason . . . these four share the same design language whilst a P6 is a totally different animal. Smack a P6 into the ground and odds are damage doesn't amount to a car payment, as one example.

So the comparison is more like apples and oranges! Let's see why.

• Kraken 580 Nitro (580-600mm)
• RAW 580 Nitro (580-600mm)
• Tron 5.5N (580-610mm)
• T-REX 600XN (580-600mm)
• Fury 57 SN (580-600mm)
• Pantera P6 (580-620mm) 

Design language

Sharing a design language means Kraken/RAW 580Nitro, Tron 5.5N, T-REX 600N, and Fury 57 SN are all built up from flat pieces of carbon fiber sheet material plus blocks to hold bearings and gears in alignment. And more bits and bobs to hold the servos to the side frames, a separate cooling fan shroud, etc. Lots of pieces.

However, when I say a P6 is an altogether different animal because of the monocoque molded frame, which snap together like Legos - complete with servo mounts and integral fan shroud - all molded of impact resistant engineering polymer (plastic, like what's used in Glock handguns). These are totally different technologies!

So while they all turn 600mm blades, they don't share the same design language. And this is true in exactly the same way both Colt 1911 M1 and Glock 21 automatic pistols send 230 grains downrange at 830ft/s but differ because the frame of one is made of steel versus plastic for the other. And neither is always better, or always worse, because they're designed for different missions!

Apples and oranges

So your pal's an idiot because a Kraken or Nitron are neither better nor worse than a P6 for the same reason an apple is neither better, nor worse, than an orange. Sure, they're similar in being a tasty fruit tucked in with a sandwich in your lunchbox, but they're totally different beyond taste - citrus is more work because it must first be peeled and sectioned versus a quick polish on your shirt before taking a bite of the apple!

Real question is; what benefit do I get from Kraken 580 Nitro versus Pantera P6 or, what's in it for me?

An example where a P6 may be better for you is it's physically bigger than the Kraken 580. Bigger than the T-REX 600N, and Tron 5.5N, also. In fact, size-wise, a P6 is more like a 700. And, critically, this also makes the P6 a lot easier to see in flight.

What else may make a P6 better for you? A P6 is all about smooth vs quick on the controls. So where the lightly built flat plate models are always ready to rumble (think Challenger meeting Mustang at a deserted traffic light), the P6 is more mellow and relaxed. Extending the analogy, think Tahoe gobbling up city street potholes whilst taut Camaro suspension transmits expansion joints straight to your tailbone!

However, unlike Camaro vs Tahoe, slipping Camaro rims on a Tahoe (same bolt pattern) doesn't translate into comparable laps at the track - but - any heli can be made to fly 3D maneuvers. Once you fit the same blades and wind them up to the same RPM as the Kraken, then because a P6 will also do crazy 3D, this means it won't hold you back whilst you are getting the basics of orientation and maneuvers down pat. Fact!

Recapping

For any given any set of blades, turning them at 2200RPM and inputting 8° of cyclic delivers the same results because the blades don't know (nor care) what mechanics are driving the main shaft. Heck, they don't even care whether what's powering them is nitro, electrons, or hamsters in an exercise wheel! What's more, if fitted with the same FBL gyro, these models can all be tuned to 'feel' like each other.

Bottom line; it comes down to what you value; models optimized for lightning quick maneuvers or one that's smooth and steady. A Kraken is quick, almost like a Kentucky Derby racehorse bolting out of the gate versus a P6 being more like a quarter horse rounding barrels or roping calves. If you like quick, maybe the Kraken 580 Nitro is best for you, but if you prefer smooth and steady, then because it's so predictable in flight, a P6 holds its own against the Kraken 580 . . . with no excuses!

Bottom line? Your friend is mistaken because the Kraken may be better for him, but it's not better for all pilots. And the answer to which is best for 'you' is . . . it depends!

Note; many consider an SAB Goblin Kraken 580 Nitro the finest 600-class model in the world (we think the RAW 580 Nitro is better for 3D, but nobody asked us). Surprised we'd admit this? Don't be, we're engineers first and love fine quality machinery - even when it's not ours. But a Pantera P6 is superbly engineered, also, and for many pilots, especially those focused on smooth scale maneuvers that look like those flown by the real thing, then the P6 has an almost unfair advantage over the Kraken 580. It's a smooth feel defying description, and that once experienced is unmistakeable. And please don't take any of this as criticizing the 580 for being quick, it's quick by design just like a P6 is smooth by design.

However, there's another consideration. The P6 may be best for you because of how plastic absorbs impact. We use plastic for the same reason Glock do, to absorb shock and reduce costs. Plastic makes the heli inherently tough because it's flexible instead of rigid. Like where carbon fiber breaks, plastic bends (just like in the story of the willow vs the mighty oak we learned in kindergarten). Important because occasionally stuffing a model into the ground comes with the territory!

Repacement parts

So now it's time to factor in the cost of spare parts. For example, a P6 tail boom costs a small fraction of replacing a Kraken boom. So unless your money grows on trees, repair costs are also part of your calculus (or should be) when determining if the juice is worth the squeeze.

On the basis of durability and repair costs, a P6 holds its own with a Kraken 580 . . . or anything else!

Summary

Bottom line? Just like some prefer boxers vs briefs, and some drive a sporty car vs SUV, when it comes to what's best for you helicopter-wise, it's not your buddy's decision . . . it depends on you!

In what follows, remember this; models with 3-axis FBL-gyros fly the exact same as ones with a mechanical gyro (flybar) but equipped with a single-axis gyro for the tail rotor. Why? Simple, it's because FBL-gyros were expressly created to replicate the feel of a flybar equipped model. Like they're 'supposed' to feel like a flybar, and they do . . . take my meaning?

Using 3-axis as a single-axis

Interestingly, you can choose to buy and install an FBL gyro on a Pantera P6 with a flybar, but only connect the tail rotor servo to the gyro. Guess what happens? Yup, the 3-axis gyros will work perfectly fine as a single-axis gyro! The other two channels aren't connected, and thus, the gyro doesn't know this, so it doesn't affect anything at all except now a pricey 3-axis gyro will work as a 1-axis gyro.

And there is actually a benefit of doing this because then you only have to futz around with adjusting the gain for the one channel instead of all three. And believe me, as a new pilot you'll have your plate full of other stuff because gain is adjusted differently for hover and forward flight. So my advice is keep the gyro end of things as simple as humanly possible, for as long as you can. Trust me.

Recapping

A huge advantage of a flybar-equipped model is you can get by with spending less money. Since the wholesale move to FBL gyros, single-axis gyros became cheap. but even brand new, single-axis gyros cost less than 3-axis gyros. Point being, especially when you're first equipping the model, saving money is important.

But there's another advantage, which is adjusting the single-axis is significantly less complicated than setting up a 3-axis gyro. Like have you ever seen a pilot dragging his laptop to the flying field so he can adjust his gyro? Anyway, since the recommended single axis gyro doesn't need a computer, they're just a heck of a lot less trouble to live with. Especially important when your goal is to fly versus fiddle endlessly!

Look, how much you spend equipping a Pantera P6 is up to you. But if you're careful, you can do things on the cheap without compromising performance. Then later, after you know how to fly, maybe then decide what to get gyro-wise if not having an FBL gyro is killing you. but bear in mind, there's a reasonable chance you end up perfectly satisfied with the mechanical gyro (flybar) plus single-axis and keep that extra money in your pocket!

And of course, if you subsequently do decide you want to play around with a 3-axis gyro, then considering how often new gyros are being released (and especially how frequently firmware upgrades are coming out), then you may find it to your advantage to wait and get a better FBL gyro when the time is right, like next year. Honestly, I'd only advise going the FBL route 'after' you've learned to fly, but I don't have a dog in the hunt in this decison, only you do. Reason is after you know how to fly, then you'll have enough experience to actually feel what the adjustments are actually doing.

I only mention this because quite honestly, as a beginner a lot of the fine tuning is so subtle you'll begin to wonder what the settings are actually doing! That and believe me, dragging a laptop to the field is both a pain in the hind end and also, the road to developing another hobby . . .

1. flying your helicopter, and
2. endlessly screwing with gyro settings

Your call, of course but if you want to spend less money, especially if you'd rather things be easier, then we recommend opting for a simple gyro setup like a Futaba GY470, or a 2nd hand GY401 or similar. There are tons of them available.

Anyway, converting the Mk II head to FBL is just a matter of using two long 2mm bolts (M2x25), which are included with the model. Then after you remove the mechanical gyro (the flybar hardware), and switch out the el cheapo 1-axis gyro for one of many 3-axis FBL gyros from the likes of Futaba, Spektrum, IKON, Radiomaster, et al . . . you're ready to follow the crowd into complicating your life.

Note; but take it from us, and by way of heads up (so you can't say nobody told you), it'll still fly the same-same as when equipped with the mechanical gyro.

- A thing of beauty in flight, the Quattro rotor head has a special look!

As horses go, they P6 is never gonna be mistaken for a Kentucky Derby 3D type model, it's more of a solid quarter horse. But when fitted with the awesome load carrying Quattro fitted, especially with 700mm main rotor blades for low-RPM ops to reduce the noise footprint while maintaining heavy lift capabilities, then the P6 is magnificent for the mission!

Just know this, a stretch kit doesn't give you a 700 on the cheap. The Mk II rotor head is designed for the mass of 600mm blade loads, not 700mm loads. Let us be blunt; if you wind the rotor head up like a 600, but whilst fitted with 700mm blades, and it blows up, don't say we didn't tell you it may happen - so any bad happens is 100% on you!

Finally, please note; Quattro production is presently all being allocated to defense customers. Curious about this rotor head? This brief video shows how we make them.

Takes some custom parts, of course. These, to include larger engine mount (naturally), plus custom tapered cone and tapered engine nut to secure the fan hub.

Anyway, reason these monsters work is because of the massive clutch with which we graced the model. That, and an especially efficient cooling system inherent in the P6 design due to our using airfoiled vs the flat blades used by others for their cooling fan.

And it's worth noting, this is a great application for a needle valve servo installation. This, because it let's you fine tune fuel mixture settings whilst flying instead of first coming in to land.

In fact, we've had several customers set this servo up with a p-mix (program mix) within their transmitter. This, to make needle valve mixture adjustments based on what they're doing with the collective pitch of the model. It's an intriguing use and adds to the hobby!

So for customer who mod their P6 into a pocket rocket with a big block conversion, we decided to make an XS decal set available (XS = excess). And we're not gonna lie, flying a P6 with excessive horsepower is an utter hoot - a guaranteed giggle maker!

However, and indirectly, this leads back to the question of building a 700-on-the-cheap by using a stretch kit with the big block conversion. Nope, don't even think it because the Mk II head's not built for those kinds of loads. Please be smart and don't dowhat we're saying not.

Remember, our making it easy to fit 700mm main rotor blades (and 115mm tail blade vs 90mm to counter torque) isn't for big block conversions but for scale use when slipping a Pantera into a 700-class fiberglass fuselage where running 600mm blades would look stupid.

Goal of the stretch kit is 100% letting you fit 700mm blades and then operating them in a lowish RPM regimen for a better illusion of reality, e.g. to look more realistic in flight (this, because full scale helis operate in the mid-hundreds of RPM, not low-thousands). Simply put, low RPMs look better and help fool the eye.

So the fundamental reason there's an RPM limit of 1200rpm on the Mk II rotor head when fitted with 700mm blades is to keep us all safe and NOT for making a 700 out of a 600 on the cheap. Staright up, the Mk II head is built too lightly for this kind of use (700mm blades and >1200rpm), in our opinion. Hence, we tell you up front there's a main rotor RPM limitation when fitted with 700mm blades. So if you're thinking to use a BBC (big block conversion) along with a stretch kit, don't because this combination is bad juju. Please don't even think about doing it!

Note, however, it's a hobby and we know it. And you're a big boy so we can't stop you experimenting. Just take our warning to heart, the Mk II head is created for 600mm blade loads even though the grips are physically capable of accepting 700mm long blades. And yes, stretch kit conversions are offered for scale use in fuselages, and there's a big block kit available, but with a <1200RPM rotor head limitation.

Note; we go into this in 'great' depth within the engines section of this product description.

Consider yourself warned!

Put another way, the sheer number of 700 class models already available means we judge it's smarter for us to stick to our knitting. E.g. what we're good at, offering an inexpensive 600-class sport model for a reasonable price, a helicopter aimed at the rest of us.

By rest of us speaking of folks who instead of wanting a model with which to emulate a coked up mosquito, are insted looking to fly their model helicopter in a more realistic manner . . . model helicopters more closely resembling the maneuvers of man-carrying 1:1 helicopters!